What To Call Adult Women

May I Take Your Order?by Rhonda Strong of Late Blooming Rose

 

Thank you, Ma’am. You have a good one.” The 20-something gate guard hands me my ID card and I drive on through. At the military installation where I work, everyone must show a military ID card in order to enter the base. The gate guard may be military or civilian, but the greeting always contains a “Ma’am” – and that’s just fine with me. Ma’am, after all, is the polite term of address for a grown-up female human whose name one does not know. And at 50, I’m certainly a grown-up female human.

I’m aware that some of my fellow grown-up female humans object to this term of address, saying “It makes me feel old,” or some such silly twaddle. What would you prefer: Honey, Miss, or perhaps Young Lady? Please, my sisters, get a grip.

A few years back, I was dining with my parents, my daughter, and my ex in one of those obnoxious chain restaurants – let’s call it “Blue Sparrow.” Our waiter was forty if he was a day, and when he approached our table, electronic order pad in hand, he purred greasily, “Now what can I get you young ladies?” I looked over at my daughter, the only young lady present at our table. No, he wasn’t addressing her. He was talking to my mother and me.

Excuse me?” I inquired, my left eyebrow – the snarky one – reaching for my hairline.

What would you lovely young ladies like to drink?” he oozed at Mom and me.

Now, this is not the first time that I’ve encountered this disrespectful, slimy, angling-for-a-bigger tip tactic, but for some reason I was especially offended this time. Even as I fought for control, I felt my eyes squinch, my lip curl and my hackles rise.

This grown woman will have an ice tea,” I snarled at him. He was clearly taken aback – the poor schmuck seemed to have no clue what he’d done wrong, but he could see his fat tip melting away.

“Mom!” my gorgeous daughter poked me after he left. “That was mean!” My mother just laughed. She and Dad told me about the patronizing language and tone they so often encountered: “You young folks, you dears, you sweeties, you kids…” Salesmen, clerks, cashiers and waiters felt justified in treating my dignified, educated, grown-up parents, both in their early 70s, as if they were children. Unbelievable!

Alas, I’ve seldom been blessed with a quick retort when insulted, but here’s what I should have said to the waiter, in front of his manager, back then:

“I find your patronizing tone offensive. I am obviously not a ‘young lady,’ and neither is my mother. We don’t buy your phony flattery, which is clearly intended to get a bigger tip from us – but you won’t get a tip by insulting your customers. Let’s look at the assumption behind your comment, shall we? You think that young is better than old, and that we’ll be flattered if you refer to us as ‘young.’ As it turns out, we’re both perfectly content to be the age we are – 48 and 70 are both lovely ages to be. Young is not better than old, nor is old better than young. Any age that a person happens to be is a perfectly fine age to be. And the proper way to address an adult female customer is Ma’am. Now please send us a different server – you’ve spoiled my appetite.”

I live in Germany now, and one thing I enjoy about this culture is the polite formality of business transactions here. My doctor’s receptionist does not call me by my first name; she calls me “Frau S-.” So do clerks, salespeople – anyone who is conducting any kind of business with me. I appreciate the sense of respect that comes with this old-fashioned politeness. We’re not pals, after all – I’m your client, your patient, your customer. And if you treat me politely, I’ll be your repeat customer. Thanks for calling me Ma’am.

Photo credit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/puzzler4879/

  • Virginia Shaffer Fesunoff

    I was working with a group of young persons (actual juvenile delinquents) this morning when one of the them asked me my name. Without thinking, I merely replied “Virginia”. He automatically replied “ok, we’ll call you Ms. V”. I supposed he was concerned that the nearby drill sergeant in charge of them would object to anything more familiar. That’s fine. These kids have a long road ahead of them, but common courtesy is a good start.

  • Bratty Kathy

    I don’t see why there needs to be any gender description used by a waiter. I am quite used to waiters saying to a table of people, “Can I take your orders now?” “What would you like to drink?” (this last one said as the waiter casts a glance at all of us around the table.) I tend to be more gender neutral in all of this and don’t see anything wrong with that. If I am at a very casual bar or family restaurant I am also fine with, “What would you guys like to drink?” I use the word ‘guys’ all the time myself for groups of male and/or female friends, as in, “Hey guys, what do you want to do tonight?” I consider it pretty gender neutral. I tend to find the term ‘ladies’ rather patronizing and old-fashioned and it feels odd to me when some of my female friends use it. I also have no issue with being called by my first name, by anyone of any age. To me, I’m just ‘Kathy”. I don’t think it makes any difference where I or anyone else stands on any kind of ‘linear age continuum’. Being respectful of someone should have nothing to do with that. It is just respect for another human being. Of course a server doesn’t know my name, unless they’re writing it on my coffee cup at Starbucks. So, just a polite, “What would you like to order?” is perfectly fine and definitely my preference.

    • Rhonda Strong

      For me, the question of first name v. “Ma’am” or Ms. Strong has to do with polite formality v. intimate familiarity, and I’m not the friend or co-worker of a restaurant server, a receptionist in an office (unless it’s my office too), the car rental clerk, and so on. I’d expect these people to be politely formal with their younger clients too. But yeah, I do bristle a bit more when the inappropriately familiar person is significantly younger than me, which probably has to do with being brought up to think that addressing adult acquaintances and strangers by their first name was rude, unless they asked me to do so. Has showing a bit of extra politeness to elders completely disappeared?

  • http://www.thedivaofdating.com/ Walker

    I bristle at the young lady as well. Gimme a break, I’m pushing 60. And, as for Ma’am–that’s a respectful way to address women- I use it with older women myself. Given my first name I’m often approached with “Mr.” until they look up to see who is in front of them!

    • Rhonda Strong

      When I was a kid, “young lady” was what I heard immediately prior to being chewed out for some transgression.

  • Risa

    Have you noticed that ma’am is being replaced by “miss”? I’m hearing it all over the place. I guess some people thought it was less offensive.

    • Rhonda Strong

      Well, I’m a teacher, and my students address all their female teachers, young and old and in between, as “Miss.” Sloppy speech, I suppose, and probably not a comment on anyone’s age. To them, we’re all ancient! I’ll take “Miss” over “young lady” any day.

      • http://www.AnyShinyThing.com/ Lynne Spreen

        Do you think they’re saying Ms.?

        • Rhonda Strong

          Considering that I have to explain to my students every year what Ms. means, I don’t think so.

          • http://www.AnyShinyThing.com/ Lynne Spreen

            Yah, what was I thinking!

  • Susan Penelope James

    I’m 70, and being addressed like this is both patronizing and disrespectful. However, waiters, nurses, caregivers, etc. think they are being nice. The best way to combat this is to tell off the person – as you did! Maybe they will get the message, even if it’s one at a time.

    • Rhonda Strong

      Susan, I hope that’s the motivation for “young lady” and “dear.” Many years ago, a midlife co-worker told me how much she hated being addressed by her first name by a young person she didn’t know – nurses, clerks, etc. That was news to me back then, but I oh-so-get it now. Perhaps I should try, “Sorry, have we met?” Or would that fly right over their heads?

      • Penelope James

        It’s Penelope. Somehow this got into some account with Susan (my first name) on it. Have no idea why.

  • http://www.AnyShinyThing.com/ Lynne Spreen

    This resonates for me. I love your “what I should have said” paragraph because it contains the implication that NOBODY would want to be what we are. So with a wink and a nudge, they deign to allow us into their club. Your assumption it was for tips makes it more nauseating, although that server may have honestly thought he was being fun and friendly. Ick.

    • Rhonda Strong

      Hello Lynne,
      Ick indeed! But I think he got the message, and perhaps that one waiter will pause and think before oozing on his next mature female customer. Thanks!

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